Brothers of Arms

[Phorkys]

This is my guard build , good for the role of main tank
Gonna try this build its supose to generate more hate and hold agrro better
http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 21,4014-21

[meduvar]

my build is more of a support tank now..i do fine in main tanking pugs etc.
but in guild raids since im often support i have skills like hateful strikes...if i need to grab aggro from gargoyle master 2nd form etc if main is low..
i also took ardent battle cry..and the improved battle cry for some additional dmg to raid etc and stamina regen..
also got 1 point in stormblade..

rest is kinda similar..but dont have as much points in the counterstike sections..

[Cassiopeda]

My guard built, built as MT with focus on getting as much Aggro as possible, atm i'm capable to hold DT's and Conqs off with their excessive aggro abilities if they don't overdo it.

Specced the stamina feature max thus not having any stamina problems in long combats and the 5% raidwide dmg bonus is a nice extra and also ensuring me of some extra aggro.

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 21,4013-21

[Cassiopeda]

Phorkys as promised the passive shield setup for Yaremka ( <<^ ):



The passive shield can be rotated by key bindings, check your keyboard setup to see to which keys they are bound.

Yakhmar is best tanked with ^^^ but then the adds need to be picked up before they reach the MT.

Vistrix and Kylliki seem to do dmg from all sides so <^>

haven't figured the gagroyle Master out yet as i'm to busy just trying to survive

[Phorkys]

Thnx , wil try that

[Cassiopeda]

New Patch 5 Guardian aggro switching tips (us forums):

Aggro swapping has become harder with the new cooldowns and changes to Goad however, active blocking and zero DPS works.

The best way to swap aggro on both is as follows:-

Tank holding aggro:
1. Tell other tank that you are "Going into active blocking" - in our guild this means "Take the b!tch off me!!!"
2. Stop DPS
3. Hit and hold active blocking until th eother tank pulls...

Tank taking aggro:
1. Keep your Intervene, Cry of Havok, Irritate (or equivalent) off cooldown as soon as you see the other tank hit 50% health and expect a call to swap...
2. As soon as you hear the call to swap, start a high damage combo (I use CS IV) and run through the combo except the last attack...
3. Hit all your cooldowns (Intervene, Cry of Havok, Irritate and Juggernaught, Hateful Strikes, Volcanic Rage if you have them available)
4. Hit your combo finisher

[Gert]

Have to say using Volcanic Rage is a good way to get the aggro swapped; when I off-tank Champ with Phorks as main, the best way I was getting the aggro off was Irritate then VR + Blood for Aid - also helps if the other tank does stop

Thanks for the info Cass - hopefully we can start getting alts and those less accustomed to raid tanking some experience soon as well and try wean some people off using Goad every chance they get

[Cassiopeda]

need to say that since i'm mostly specced in dulling blow, that a combination of dulling blow 4 + 3 + 2 in a row also creates a huge amount of threat and reducing the dmg i take, since dulling reduces the mob/boss attackpoints, sometimes i don't even have to use any cry of havoc or other goading ability by just using dulling blows, also the honorguard seems to like those combos as he switches less frequently to the dps group, cry of havoc puts him back in place if he does switch.

[Ewsforos]

Only one question.The Sustained Rage on general feat tree how much important is.Is that req?

[Urumaru]

Sharing time, then here is my tempest build.

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 21,4016-23

Cunning deflexion, the main reason to have that is to burst your aggro at beginning with the reflective damages.
Cry of havoc, just 1 point cause for a main tank, i don't need more.
Lifesaver, 0 point. cause a regen of 12HP/sec, really not that usefull when i tank.
Stoneskin 0 point, only needed in raid if you lack of protection gear, and don't forget you got 2 dts by your side so against the casters they'll do the main job.
Sustained rage and hatefull strike, burst aggro again, in case you have to rotate often on aggro it's better to have several brust aggro abilities. Ofc, if you're just main tank and you never roll on aggro, having both sustained rage and hatefull strike is a waste imo. But against solid bosses no tank can do that, you have to rotate, whatever your gear and build, so you have to be abble to go up and down in the aggro list.
I use riposte instead of strom strike, for a simple reason. Riposte got pretty much the same effect than bloody vengeance, it's an immediate and huge dps dealer which is actually a kind of aggro burst, and you can use it many many times as you don't have that ridiculous 30sec cd of storm strike. You just have to wait to get the evade buff on you and then you use riposte, it works very well with some practice.

Good point of that build, you can also enjoy solo gaming as guard cause 1 combo is enough to kill any lvl80 mob, so SH and villas go really really fast.
Bad thing is against the caster bosses, if you don't have your protection gear you're dead.
About the aggro, i don't have much problem, and when i do it's mainly because of my lack of practice.

And another build
http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 21,4016-21

Weak hatefull strike, more protection, and cry of havoc full feated.
Main difference, you'll have less hard time against bosses like chatha, cause you got more protection against his dot.

[Atkara]

Mel, I take it you've already tried out test-builds without Sustained Rage feated into general tree. Do you remember the results?

[Urumaru]

Well, it depends if you're s&s or polearm.
Lets say that you don't feat sustained rage and combat mastery stratagem, so you don't have the +15% weapon dmgs which all the other soldiers have.

That means you need volcanic rage and hatefull strike full feated.
Lets be honest, the problem is not to keep aggro from the dps, because any decent guard will do that if the dps got enough brain to let him build some aggro at start (not obvious i admit but lets imagine). The problem is to keep aggro from the other soldiers, to be abble to rotate aggro with them.

And we all know what a brute conq can do in term of burst aggro, same for the dts and their OP/unbalanced/unfair SoC.
So i would say the +X% weapon dmgs is needed for a guard only if he's polearm, as the polearm build counts on dmgs dealts to generate the aggro.
For a s&s guard, not needed at all. It's just more comfortable to keep aggro, that's it.

Honestly, having a good aggro means nothing said like that, you only got a good aggro compared to the other soldiers of the raid, or not.
That's what is sustained rage, just a little plus for the fights which last long.

[Atkara]

Did some testing in AF: Polearm build, with Combat Mastery & Master Pikeman, but without Sustained Rage & Volcanic Rage.

The results are preliminary in any way, since we're talking about an app'd lvl75 Guardian. Anyways, the only case I actually had aggro control issues, was when Combat Mastery had been accidentally switched off. As soon as I got it back up, everything went back to normal.

For the time being, I'm under the impression that, the 25% damage bonus from those 2 feats (Combat Mastery and Master Pikeman) might be able to keep things under control (Scratch this whole sentence, I should have known better... combat mastery adds 15% bonus to melee weapon damage, while Master Pikeman adds 10% bonus damage to polearm combos... ).

Feating Combat Mastery & Sustained Rage, while leaving Master Pikeman out, seems more fitting to what I'm trying to do, which basically is this build. But I still have 3 levels to go and some more gear to get, before stepping into the Dragon's face.

[Ewsforos]

The Master Pikerman is needed Atkaras. I see that you spend 5 points on Cry of Havoc. One point is good to take the aggro.

[Urumaru]

Ouohoh Atk, carefull, that build is not made for tanking.

Master pikeman is incredibly more usefull than combat mastery stratagem. Because 15% of 130 dps (epic polearm dps) is without any doubt weaker than 10% of 250 dps (usual polearm combo).

Storm strike is useless as well, you got redoubt, way enough as big combo, and you can use it pretty much all the time.
Vengeance is mine is just when you play solo, to get the vengeance buff just by yourself, so useless in raid/gr.
Hatefull vengeance, well why not, but i would not spend even 1 point in it.

You don't have an eye for an eye, it's an insane powerfull feat, the counterstrike dmgs dealt are just uber, stronger than any other counterstrike for any soldier.

Impale, lots of guards feat that, i'll never get why tbh. The dps let you 5 sec before dpsing in any decent raid anyway.

No volcanic rage or hatefull strike, you'll miss those aggro burst abilities.
And Goad again, Atk you love that one. Since anything higher than t1 is immune, why feating that ?

[Atkara]

Goad is my lucky charm! I never get out of my house without it

Apart from that, and if I understood properly what you suggest, the above build should be modified into something like this, right?

[Gert]

Goad will be redundant once you get Forced Engage

[Urumaru]

This last build looks good to me, except i would put the 5 points of combat mastery stratagem in sustained rage. exactly same effect except that with the sustained rage you can benefit of the +15% dmgs and still use another stratagem, like +500 hp.

[Atkara]

Hmmm... I don't know how hateful strikes ended up there, but I'd swear I took Sustained Rage instead. Anyways, the built I mean before, is this

Ditching Combat Mastery, for the sake of Hateful Strikes, Brutal Maiming & Volcanic Rage, seems reasonable.

[Urumaru]

just one thing important, in case.

If your guard is made only for tanking in raid and instance, you want a juggernaut build.
Nothing can go higher in aggro than a juggernaut. I know lots of ppl used to think the contrary but it's true, the juggernaut don't rly burst on aggro like a tempest or a brute conq but they build a more "solid" aggro.

It requieres more work because it's more tricky but once you know how to manage it nothing can go higher.
Tempest build is more for the polearm range, which is usefull on ahazu, and fun in solo gaming as you deal much more damages, but that's it.
The tempest aggro is easier and also weaker.

Check this build.
http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 21,4016-21

Bloody vengeance full feated, ofc, it's just the most powerfull combo of all soldiers, in aggro and damages.
no sacrifice and no titanic smash. Sacrifice is not needed, the vengeance buff on juggernaut goes high very very quick, you don't need it. And titanic smash is just pittyfull, just like storm strike in tempest.
Your aggro burst combo is bloody vengeance, it'll never be that poor titanic smash.
5 points in sustained rage, just for long duration fights, can help a bit.
Just 1 point in volcanic rage is way enough to get a little advantage when you use bloody vengeance.
And 1 point in hatefull strike as well, same idea.
Intervene full feated. You 'll always hear that it's weak and useless. Eeer, i don't think so, that crap is just a cheat, your aggro goes higher in the list whatever you do, so ok it has just a chance to occure, but still.
Ability juggernaut. lets face it, it's just a joke compared to the conq lifesavers. Ah well that's not fair but it's still a 3 in 1. aggro burst/+ protection/+mitigation. For just one point it's worth to get it, i won't complain.

With that kind of build and some practice, you get a decent tank.
And if really your aggro is still a problem, then here is a trick.
You wait for the other soldiers to burst their aggro, like the aggro monkeys they are, specially the conqs. Then you switch to polearm, trigger volcanic rage and spamm bloody vengeance. And here it is, aggro is yours again, so you can switch back to s&s and continue your job.

[Atkara]

The build certainly looks good to me. After all, my own guard started with juggernaut spec, back in late 2008.

Conqs are indeed, aggro monkeys. And DTs. And Guards. It's their job. And nobody needs any of the 3 soldier classes, unable to take aggro from either of the other 2, at any given time.

Aggro/tanking competition (because that's the real problem), starts from the person behind the line and more specifically, his/her ego. Not the class itself. Get a soldier who ignores teamwork, for the sake of proving himself as "The One & Only", and you've got yourself a glorious wipe.

[Urumaru]

That's a real problem. Each time a tank changes his build, higher or lower his aggro, all the other tanks have to accomodate.
It's no big deal in t1, but in t2/3, as you said it's a wipe dealer.

And as it seems goad is that nice, here is my next build to test that goad thingy compared to the aother aggro bursts.
http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 23,4006-21

[Gert]

That's a real problem. Each time a tank changes his build, higher or lower his aggro, all the other tanks have to accommodate

I still have nightmares over that Farty run when you'd changed your build

[Urumaru]

New build in test atm.

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 25,4006-21

Better about the aggro so far.
And finally storm strike is a powerfull combo.

Forget about the riposte combo, because you cannot reliate on the damages, it can be good as often as bad, but you can't plan anything about it, it's too chaotic, even if it's fun to use, very good interaction with the fight.

I'm using goad to see how it goes but tbh i've never really needed it to get or keep aggro, so just for 1 point, it would be worth to put it into volcanic rage instead.

[Jeremy]

Polearm build

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=20 ... 22,4006-21

build from azenothir ex affinity - CRO now
the way the rotation goes is SS-guard1 (or the new 1)-fs8-fs9