Brothers of Arms

[holymau]

hallo every1 i wanted to do this for past few days but i was busy or playing game :}. server down and ill spend some time to share some thoughts about demo with u.
lvl 1 start game. lvl 10 feats. 10-80 full conflig easy to lvl like nothing (played tos necro and sin to 80 before and this was easiest). dunno about havock didnt use it till 80 - but i heard it is also easy. so whichever u decide u wont regret it. reaching 80. max pve dps u get like hybrid
my curent build is

Spoiler:

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=44&tpl=1024-05,1036-05,1026-05,1027-02,1037-05,1028-02,1055-01,1043-05,1033-03,1042-01,1050-05,1041-01,1049-05,1035-01,1000-15,1001-15,1003-15,1051-13,1057-11,1002-11,1016-11,1014-13,1018-11,1048-15,1053-12,1054-11

here is exp:
havoc- i dont use shockstrike so i didnt upgrade it at all. i use shock and i lower it cd. bombardment is great but in khitai u need as much burst dmg as possible and rapid recharge give me tht burst
lvling pet dmg (demonic power) and increse crit chance (fury of underworld) gives me some some nice extra dmg in long boring boss fights.
so from havoc we have 1 skill we use all the time (shock) 2 cc and shock lance (we use from time to time), rest is passive which really make demo easy to play.
conf- extra fire dmg and no splash. because i dont need splash. aoe is mostly worthless and when u need u have waves of flame. demonic war don't work so no need to put more than 1 feat (unless u want unholy hate) improved waves of flame is great and hellwave is optional (as vell as backdraft). combustion very good.
so combo is like fog-hs-shock-fog- fog-hs-fog-shock-hs-etc. ofcourse chaotic blast whenever ready and shock lance in 3+ stacks.
AA- way more important than feat tree.
general: pressing and decesive strikes -rest not needed
archtipe: unbiding charm, enchanter will of sublime and soothing glamour (enchanter will put u lower on parser but u will finish everthing easier, will of sublime gives u nice extra crit dmg, and soothing glamour - without tht u either dont dps good or u r agrro monkey)
class: this is pain in the butt... 1.ring of flame lvl5- 50 prownes (900h). well 5 seconds waves of flame in huge coon. this is only aoe u need in game
2. bindigs os skylord lvl1 good extra dps for start (single target 30sec cd) around 1k dmg
3. cocodemon lvl5 significatly increase ure dps (and ure overall dps - cuz it hit preety hard ) and other members of ure group- which is very important cuz this is team play game, u dont solo a lot in this game (u lose bindings but get extra dps from coco and his extra dps and some surviveability- fair trade)
4 rest is great. fully aa-d demo makes way more dps than non aa-d. so prepare for extra grindig (need much more aas than necro for exaple)

factions and gear: 1.children of yag kosha- ring
2.last legion- back and staff
3. brittle blade- full set,ring (looks useful when planning to be spanked by mobs)
4. hyrkanians- talisman, horse (if intrested)
5. tamarin tigers - dagger, necklace and tiger (if intrested)

that is easiest and way to get fully purple geared without wasting time on changing factions and stuff. once when u get all from those guys u r exp and geared demo who can do anything. u have tons of insignias and good gear so u easy lvl other factions.
i personaly prefer bb over all other gear cuz of great crit rating and looks. i see many ppl runing in SC but when i get tht gear ill compare it and tell u what i find out. t123 is mostly useless but should consider having 3 peaces (head shoulder and gloves) in ure inventory for decrising hate and not loosing too much on dps (when see tht u r getting too much aggro- tank is not best and sin is already dead :P)
and ofcourse for grinding khitai the easyiest way is to buy the gear as u lvling faction tht way in few days u will have at least most of khitai blue and u will get some t12 gear, so u will be able to run quests not just in ng, u wiill be able questing in choisan and kk (but be carefull those mobs hit hard and crit harder:))
about pvp i saw many imba demos (what i am not- k/d 100/500) and i hope they will say something about tht aspect of the game (matt dont be shy :P)
this is for new demos so every comment is welcome and hopefully will help them
enjoy ure demos, have fun and cya in game

[matt]

Hehhee looove demo banter! Thanks for your thoughts!

WoF is very nice. You said that you used it as aoe but then mentioned FoG in your single target rotation? The build i currently have works around wof as my main spell as i found i get most dps with that, on single or mutiple targets:

Pulling spell - Shock + hf - wof - shock/hf/sl (depending on cd) and fog/cb/firestorm/pact/sb depending on how long before wof is off cd and the situation

But ofc it is all rather situational hehhe. Sometimes cc and such need to b thrown in, but basically i found wof to hav higher output than fog.

I totally agree that bb gear is best looking, but nothings looks better than being top of the dps parser (go mau!!!) so i think a mixed set is my choice hehhe.

As you have the crit chance/damage from bb, what about feating renegotiation, in addition to RoF, and going deeper into the conflag tree to buff pacts? This will give more dps than pact of dread in havok as the pact of dread charges get wasted on inxinerate.

[Darmyter]

Nice info however a few things

I agree for max PVE dps you need to be hybrid but there are points id like to make which i think will help your DPS Mau a bit more

1) You mentioned you don't use shockstrike.....Use it Wherever you use FoG in your spell rotation repalce it with Shockstrike. I dont see any advantage of FoG (other than aggro management, but thats not what we are here for ). Single target DPS between FoG and Shockstrike is very similar (i still think shockstrike is a bit better but its only marginal) and you have the opportunity to make Shockstrike semi AOE with the right feats. You will notice a big improvement in DPS especially in BRC trash clearing for example if you feat discharge shockstrike and chained shockstrike. Infact - if you do not have at least rank 4/5 in Ring of Fire AA, these two feats are a MUST as shockstrike would be your base spell.

Also another point about shockstrike - for me i find that it helps the tanks keep aggro a bit better because of its larger casting time - if im smashing the mobs constantly with numbers (WoF and insta cast spells) i pull aggro a lot. If i throw a shockstrike or 2 in the rotation i seem to pull aggro a bit less. Not sure why but my thoughts are that 1) my dps drops slightly as i see WoF doing better dps than shockstrike and 2) there is 2.5 seconds (casting time of shockstrike) of which im doing nothing where the tanks can unload a combo or whatever it is these metal heads can do in 2.5 seconds .

2) There are two reasons only why i go into Conflag. Insta Hellfire Stream and Consume Flames. Insta Hellfire stream is pretty self explanitory lol. But Consume Flames is the BEST feat for managing your mana. Try it, burn your mana out and stack 5 incinerates, then use consume flames. You will see that quite a reasonable chunk of mana is restored. You can use consume flames every 20 seconds. If you use it every 20 seconds with 5x incinerate, mana management becomes a doddle.

3) Dont feat 5 points in Fury of the Underworld. The description of the feat is "increases the spell critical strike chance of your demon pet by 10%). 10% of what original chance exactly? As far as i can tell the spell critial chance of the demo pet before feating must be 0.1% or something. I sat and watched my demo pet for ages and the number of crits was pretty crap. So increasing it by 10% for 5 feat points its useless in my opinion. Better spent elsewhere

These are the 3 main points I noticed - test it all out and youl see what I mean


Happy Demo'ing

Darm

[matt]

Hoiiii oii darmy, ello fellow demo :d

 I dont see any advantage of FoG (other than aggro management  

AA boosted WoF is the best dps and the smaller cast time of fog allows you to squeeze more into the time between wof casts than ss does without overlapping wof cooldown. What u use depends on situation.

I usually just manage aggro by feeling out the ability of tank/situation. Subtle illlusion can b used premptivly to good effect. And although a slightly longer cast time of ss may help to reduce aggro, it also causes hate by criting harder... So 6 of one, half a dozen of the other?

2) But Consume Flames is the BEST feat for managing your mana.

Hehe this reminds me of what we spoke about! I still havent tried it as i didnt want to nerf incinerate damage but i guess no mana = no damage, hehe. Usually archfiend nd cricle work well but, not always... I must try it.

3) Dont feat 5 points in Fury of the Underworld. The description of the feat is "increases the spell critical strike chance of your demon pet by 10%). 10% of what original chance exactly? As far as i can tell the spell critial chance of the demo pet before feating must be 0.1% or something. I sat and watched my demo pet for ages and the number of crits was pretty crap. So increasing it by 10% for 5 feat points its useless in my opinion. Better spent elsewhere

Im not sure that's what it means because crit chance is also measured in %. I always understood it to be a simple increase in the % chance, rather than it being a percentage increase of a percentage?! 

As for pet crits, the following is floating around on the forums, but i havent verified it. With no buffs and strawman solo for 3 min:

Cacodemon - 25086 - 139.4 dps - fire damage
attacked 54 times with 13 crits - 24% chance of crit

Avenger - 16218 - 90.1 dps - electrical damage
attacked 50 times with 8 crits - 16% chance of crit

Familiar - 15181 - 84.3 dps - fire damage
attacked 35 times with 4 crits - 11% chance of crit

Guardian - 24275 - 136.8 dps - electrical damage
attacked 145 times with 25 crits - 17% chance of crit

Slave - 22570 - 125.4 dps - fire damage
attacked 136 times with 12 crits - 9% chance of crit

Warlord - 24442 - 135.8 dps - fire damage
attacked 60 times with 8 crits - 13% chance of crit

cocodemon lvl5 significatly increase ure dps (and ure overall dps - cuz it hit preety hard ) and other members of ure group- which is very important cuz this is team play game, u dont solo a lot in this game (u lose bindings but get extra dps from coco and his extra dps and some surviveability- fair trade.

as above, caco has best dps, but the caco aa are not essential. 3 points is good enough until more important aa are filled. E.g points in bindings would give a greater point fir point benefit. Increasing points in caco doesnt inc pet damage only pet buff, which is nice but not agame winner. With a deep havok build, like yours one of the most important part of caco/pets is the crit chance, so guardian would be a good alternative. The reason being that pet crits also trigger pact of the dread. Although with your sexeh bb set, ctits shouldnt b too much of a problem, hehe

[holymau]

+1 on putting wof in combination but when rof is 4+ or even 5 before tht it is not best idea
+1 on full bb is not best but very good for start and with this faction combination u get fastest all khitai gear (later u will combine and find what best suits u)
+1 on not highest dps tree but best survivability, which is important when come in khitai in some like crafted blue 80 or even worse- so this is just till they gear up and good for soloing
hmm after some calculations +1 on renegotiation and going deeper in conflig cuz tht looks like really imba dps - so ill try tht build for sure but need to lvl improved arch pact and improved pact in set (aa) but tht includes 3 fully feated aa which is really hard and take some time. so later on tht sound great (ofcourse have to find way to menage agrro ), and ofcourse need some imba gear for tht build
about gear my plan is t23 dagger + hyrkanian talisman for dps, and 2 talismans (t3 hopefully ) when need some extra hp. hyrkanian tally give me some boost thanks to will of sublime aa

now what i disagree
-1 shockstrike 2,5 sec is too much for me. at least cuz of fun specialy if use few in row so 4 shockstrike gives me 5 fog. aggro dunno i get it lose it when needed so i quite good with aggro menagment
-1 consume flames (pots do great when dont need sw, and when need sw archfiend pact is enought). tbh never have probs with mana (ruins and stuff in some instances can make me some troubles but i can deal with it)
and 5 points in fury well lets say it is optional
ofcourse every demo should try everything and if any have probs with mana definitly should go for this till he increse mana pool or alike

have fun

[Darmyter]

Interesting pet stats, the crits certainly seem more generous than when i was testing!

Subtle illlusion can b used premptivly to good effect

always do this when i see crits flying about :P

AA boosted WoF is the best dps and the smaller cast time of fog allows you to squeeze more into the time between wof casts than ss does without overlapping wof cooldown

I disagree......I believe the cd of WoF is 4 secs, so its about what you do with those 4 secs. With FoG what can you do? Two FoG? (not exactly great dps so not an option imo at all). So what about FoG, BoS, hellfire stream, shock? The last 2 being instant cast means that you probs have realistically 1 sec left. What do you do with this 1 sec?? If you replace FoG with SS you now only have 0.5 sec to spare. Its why imo SS fills this cd better. It would be interesting to see what you do Mau/Matt during this 4 sec cd period?

Here is what i do during WoF cd..... [Hellfire stream, SS, Shock, BoS, Shock Lance (when 4 or more stack), Consume Flames/Detonation, Hellfire stream] All of the 4 seconds available are used productively

Also Mau - you have feated Shock Lance, if you use SS instead of FoG you will get a 5x stack for Shock Lance much quicker and you will have another instant cast spell at your disposal more often.....

I really cannot emphasise enough how much more advantageous SS is to FoG but i guess each to their own...

I still havent tried it as i didnt want to nerf incinerate damage

You could argue this but 5x incinerate stacks quickly again anyway after WoF and hellfire stream

till he increse mana pool or alike

I would like to make a point about mana pool. Its not ALL that important. I try instead to find an equalibrium. A balance between mana spent and mana received back. It is why consume flames is so important in how i play.

(pots do great when dont need sw, and when need sw archfiend pact is enought).

Archfiends pact has a long cool down so its not any good for continuous mana regen. This is more a panic button for me when i find my head up a tome adds ass for too long for example. Or sustained periods of Spellweaving as Mau said. Also if you can survive mana wise on just pots then your not doing as much dps as you could.....you have mana to use so use it


Darm

[holymau]

in tht 4 sec i do fog-shock-hs-fog, and then again if need wof. all good dps. shock lance dont use and have to feat it cuz i need other skills from tht tree
about incinerate i like to flow all time dont like to refresh it (than it makes most dps) and if i wanna to remove it ill use detonation for some extra dps.
about mana pool well i have 6.6k mana and almost never stay without mana. but i waste some time on training efficiency which maybe helps.
and the last i dont do as much dps as i could- tht is true, but mana is not still a problem. u put parser last night on keeper it was like 1.10% phork, 2.9% u and 3.8% me. my demo is not event 2 months old (aa wise), i am quite worse geared than u and phork, and i dont sw unless i must, and this build i currently use is not dps build (as i said before it is max dps with some survive tehnics), and i didnt even use a single mana pot. so what according to parser i dont do bad dps, and still dont need consume flames (tho i find it very usefull on start 80, till i put some points in efficiency and learn a bit about mana menagment), maybe hellwave helps a bit. tho overload and earth recharge also help.
btw to many ???? and matt/mau/darm is not point of this thread and makes bad effect. this is not thread to see who is better demo or argue about builds but to share some exp with new demos (alts) to guild. i hope tht every demo who come here will try every posted builds and all combos and stuff. my build gives me good results and i am sure tht ure build is as good as mine or better, but i still dont like ss cuz tht 0.5 longer casting. tbh i would like more from u darm to post ure build and tell us combos u do so we can try it. it will be more productive than "It would be interesting to see what you do Mau/Matt during this 4 sec cd period?" "Also if you can survive mana wise on just pots then your not doing as much dps as you could..." and stuff. once again i respect u and ure way of play but somehow from ure posts i feel tht u dont respect my, which lead to arguing, competing all thing tht i dont want.

[matt]

Mmmmn interesting banter while i hav been away from web. But i am connected for a little while now (via phone hehhe) so will try to join the fun!

Mana is annoying hehhe but i have a secret plan to help me manage it. I wonder what you think... Critisize all u like, helps improvements I think a fairly large part of mana management comes from gear, particularly in shorter fights.

Gearwise, i focus on bb and summoners, aiming to get rhe best compromise for crit chance, crit damage and magic damage. However, this leaves me rather low for mana/hp pool... So i want to add in wolvesgear in the slots that offer no crit/magic damage, e.g. Head slot. The benifit of wolves is that it has highest mana/hp/stam pool/regen and also highest INTELLIGENCE and therefore offers the only opportunity to increase damage from these slots.... Well from what i rmb anyway

As for the interval between WoF, i alluded to it already but it is a perfect time to cast cc + reposition, while casting those instants. In raid encounters, a pact or two is always helpful

Hehe Okay i had no time to write any pvp... Hopefully later!! Gl in raid dudes

[matt]

about pvp i saw many imba demos (what i am not- k/d 100/500) and i hope they will say something about tht aspect of the game (matt dont be shy :P)

WARNING!!! WALL OF TEXT BELOW

Hehe, wish i was imba... Mayb one day, but for now i think i may b able to share some pvp tactics By far the most important thing, as for any class, is to know basics of pvp and about movement. But, as a demo posistion is equally important... 

Im guess you all kmow about basics but i will try to mention a few of my experiences from the class... Hope they will be useful :d

General - learn to kite and circle straff and get a good pvp spec/gear. Learn to recognise target buffs and when to use cc. 

Dependin on spec, i aim to do max dps with a kb + WoF... All the while constantly moving and using instants + cc. For a few class specifics...


Assassin - The demo nemesis and if you don't see them coming it quite often means death before you can get off the floor after being knocked back and silenced- so just pay attention and make sure you don't let them poke you in the brown eye. If I know a sin is heading for me, I will use rocks to prevent charge and cast AoE around me in order to pop them out of stealth. If they charge+root, you can easily purge the root and then your next goal in life should be to survive the next 10-15 seconds (use phase out, HotU and circle strafe - often no point trying to dps as they will have used dull pain and will have 90% magic immunity for 10 secs). Daggers have a very small hit box so try to stay out of this. Survive their initial tirade and then you will hopefully get to see how squishy they are! Their fear has an easy to recognise animation so can be avoided but use ethereal escape if it does. Otherwise, Grim corruption (+/- slow death strike) and their annoying silence, lotus coated dart, are what you need to look out for! GC can also be followed by detonation. Detonation seems to hit really hard and it is the rerollers weapon of choice and does massive unholy damage. Use Mystic suppression against unholy and buff up your AA unholy protection.

These days most save their avatar thing defensively so if he pops you can smile as you know that you just have to do a little more kiting as they are about to run. Sins can apply some physical torments which you can remove with unbinding charm but, seriously, you won't have time for this.

Avatar of death gives the sin charm, knockback, root and snare immunity for 15 seconds (post revamp)..... However, we can still stun them. HOWEVER, if specced into general tree sins just use agile mind to break the stun and then for the next three three seconds they also get additional immunity to fear and stun from the global immunity. Luckily, however, the best sin builds are probably hybrid, which means in most cases you will be able to use your kb/stun as they will not have specced into the general tree (agile mind, escape artist)


Barbarian - some of these can be really annoying as they have loadsa CC and CC breaks, they can use excellent balance (+200 KB resistance) at the start of the fight. I found that the best thing to do here is to use the longer casted storm chains and possessiob at the beginning and make the barb waste their cc breaks on these, which allow you to use fiery possession, detonation and HoTU on him when you need it the most. Decapitation hits hard so try to use your stun if the barb is going to hit you with it.


Bear Shamans - They often spec are ironhide + stonehide (the best BS pvp build!) in which case you need to force them to use these as early as possible: burst dps. Otherwise they tend to spec booming roar, which is an annoying silence, especially if your fighting as a group, but it is really only an annoyance leaving only the weaker ironhide and their rune of resistance (against lightning) and rune of grouding (magic resistance + huge movement nerf) for defence. Just use terrain to prevent the shammy charging you while they have their rune of grounding up and then just CC them to death. However, this is easier said than done. A bad BS usually goes down quite nicely, a good one however can be a real pain as they time their bubbling and healing so you essentially have to kill them three times... If you have a spare moment it can actually be worth removing the crush armour torment.


Conqueror - Between their bubbles and their silence (throat slash) conqs can cause a fair amount of problems. almost always start out burst of aggression, then follow up Throat Slash. At this point they go for their big snare and then start one bubble knowing CC's on them are incoming. You can stun him mid charge, take the KB, then root him, circle strafe, KB on 5x incinerate stack and by that time they are usually dead.


Demonologist - Know thyself!


Dark Templar - Like fighting guards this often ends in stalemate as I oom and they run out of stam/mana. Use archfieinds pact and watch your mana management... Nasty mana drain. Hybrid DTs are most difficult - especially if they know how to stance dance. They usually fire off dark burden (just use purge) and then use the shadow ability to prevent out cc and hope that void will proc while they swing at you. When any class has cc resist/bubbles running remember that HoTU has a 30% speed buff and works magic for kiteing - especially when you're against a class such as a sin or DT who have a small range. Otherwise they take cc really well, use your AA on their fear (if you havn't managed to kite them!) and try to burn their mana before you run out of yours and hope that they run out of stam after chasing you.


Guard - When fighting a guard it often comes down to whether I have run out of mana or not. If they train enough AA your cc can become rather in effective + they have their own pile of cc to unleash... it is quite often that you have to rely on purging their snare and circle strafing - which usually seems to works quite well. Your KBs are both passively and innately resisted however a 5x Incinerate stack or wicked bolts can both work. Make sure you have chatha up as the fear and kb resist is very useful. Guards can activate their bubble during CC. 


HoX - The key to this fight is CC, they have passive AoE that hits pretty hard, but luckily they take most of the CC so just keep your distance!They often try to root and flame lash, but if you have purge they are just wasting their time. CC and kite is the main strategy, other than this, keep your eyes peeled for their fire absorb!


Priest of Mitra - Okay, these guys are pretty easy unless you get the -holy buff from demonic pact or don't think fast enough to turn off demonic heart (huge mistake, prepare to feel pain). Providing you have done this, PoMs take most of our cc and take too long to cast their spells to be that much of a threat if you close the distance and strafe - just watch out for their aoe KB.


Necromancer - Probably another of the easier fights for a demo. But the most frustrating thing is to die from a dot after you have already killed them, so keep using mystic supression. If they are pet specced you can snare melee pets and CC + nuke the necro. If they are night fall you just need to close the gap and you should be able to out cc them. Depending on the situation and whether they have general of the dead, it is often worth hitting the necro with aoe rather than SB/FoG as the dps is not that much less and the necro can get some pretty strong heals from draining their pets. Watch out for their spell weaving as it makes their dots quite nasty.


Ranger - If your already in spellweave and they cant LOS you just open up on them, you will usually out dps them. But in the majority of occasions, just close in, circle strafe and CC. If you are far away, use phase out and tap/sprint towards them, most rangers do not spec any CC break (other than AA) and are pretty easy to take down. I found that double tapping through kb traps sometimes causes them to be resisted, however they are also triggered by your pet so ALWAYS send that in before you do anything. Also, a top tip send your pet to permanently target then ranger if they spec hunting hawk as your pet will take the silence, yet continues to do dps like normal (love it when this happens).

Tempest of Set - Avoid close range due to storm field/crown. They have a bubble/absorb and lightning absorb.


Obviously these discussions are all very situational... And all this is much easier said than done. But i must emphasize basics are more importamt than details above. share ur experiences too please

Edit: changed 'root' to 'snare'

[Avaddon]

op demos.. cc resist - 2 KB 2 stun root ok and a 6000 k burst in 5-7 sec ..my only real pain is the stupid resist they have in ccs as necro.. aslo keep distance from poms realy.. a good pom is not easy at all have or not demonic heart on

[matt]

op demos.. cc resist - 2 KB 2 stun root ok and a 6000 k burst in 5-7 sec ..my only real pain is the stupid resist they have in ccs as necro.. aslo keep distance from poms realy.. a good pom is not easy at all have or not demonic heart on

Shame the resist was nerfed

It is true about pom; any class with a good player behind it can be a nighmare to deal with. Keeping at distance can be a good tactic to out range poms, but depends on the situation. Of course some classes have a nemesis and gear helps, but on the whole skill really makes a difference.

A great example is hox. There is a large difference when facing either a good one or an average one in pvp.

[holymau]

tbh i pvp better on my necro than demo :}. have bunch of pets so hard to aim me. just go spam few flash to worms hide in some hole sw and k/d 10/0 lol. can u post some build u find usefull in pvp. i keep making mistake rushing. might be better to use bombardment ss-shock (upgraded on feats ofcourse- so go mostly on havoc for pvp).most problems gives me dts barbs and bs-s (sins ofcourse), the main reason is combo skiping (my 7-8k hp in pvp go in 2-3 skiped combos from classes i mention). when they dont cs it is quite different story. stil they pawn me (most of the time) but we fight. tht y range and pussy tactics sound good to me. ss-shock-possesion- wof detonaton-wof sounds like plan to win but i usualy fog hs detonaton wof... as i said not very smart combo. combo skipping is greatest problem to me and if any suggestion how to fight tht ill gladly try. now i have plan with fog hs distant when come closer wof- detonation- stun- hs-wof (so i dont need to go havoc:)). second problem is tht dont have enought feats to put to make my stun instant (i was doing better with full conflig than now whit this hybrid)... think i can make good pvp build but tht will make me very easy to kill in pve. need few more days to finish some stuff in aa- and gear and than ill try something pvp wise. till then give me something to think about ^^

[matt]

Hehe, yeah i found the same mate. I started pvp with both demo and necro. I always found it much easier to score kills with necro and kiting was also much smoother. But overall demo was more exciting and had better utility for groups and seiges...  

now i have plan with fog hs distant when come closer wof- detonation- stun- hs-wof (so i dont need to go havoc:)). second problem is tht dont have enought feats to put to make my stun instant (i was doing better with full conflig than now whit this hybrid)... think i can make good pvp build but tht will make me very easy to kill in pve. need few more days to finish some stuff in aa- and gear and than ill try something pvp wise. till then give me something to think about ^^

After i first began to understand a little of pvp the best build for me was a standard turret build. 

This was great as i could also use it to good effect in pve, and as it focuses on ranged dps, it scored very well in minigames, world group pvp and seiges. It produces good ranged+aoe dps. It is probably the best build for the pussy tactic loving demo. The problem i found with this is that i was no use in protecting my team... Sure i could lay out more nukes than Russia, but there is more to the game. another thing to remember is that this build is not so effective for 1vs1. I hated it that i often had to run in pvp encounters.
Main tactics: posistioning, tactics, range
Main spells: ss, sl, shock, sb

...and then there is this, my dirty build. As i got a better hold on pvp basics and my movement improved i could get closer to the action. This has slightly less killing capacity, but it means i am better placed to hold my own in most situations. It is generally more versatile in pvp situations.
Main tactics: kiting, cc, movement
Main spells: ss/sb/shock/hs at range and wof, cc + all semi/instants when close

most problems gives me dts barbs and bs-s (sins ofcourse), the main reason is combo skiping (my 7-8k hp in pvp go in 2-3 skiped combos from classes i mention). when they dont cs it is quite different story. stil they pawn me (most of the time) but we fight.

Yeah these are nasty and the worst of them for demo is barbs. At times they seem almost impossible to cc. Played at their best they are one of the top dueling classes. The only real things to do is work on the basics (movement, strategy + posistioning), pay very careful attention to anti cc buffs and time burst dps with cc. Not very helpful advice, but mayb thats because against a good bs/barb i will often loose.

Let me know what you find works best for you...

Edit: added spells used

[Avaddon]

demo is op no mater what ..in pvp is a class that have all in one.. from resist.. speed ... Kb..stun.. root..slow..instand 2000k spels range 33 m easy and heal from pet,,also can easy stop regens in other classes ..have some semi buble so all that makes that class op.. no other cast class have all that in one along with fast cast spells ..good player in demo is killer no mater what..so if a barb or a sin can kill you then is ok ..is the only class that can be ready to dual or a nuker in team,,, so stop bitching about Cskip try to melle damage with a barb or dt with 150 ms a jumping monkey demo or necro.. if you dont quit from run may you kill him

[Avaddon]

btw nice info from all demo nabs in guild good work

[holymau]

well said. from what i see standard turret is great untill u get like lvl 4 in pvp since u get extra armor and extra protection (y i didnt remember tht ), and on lvl 4 u can buy gear tht actualy replace tons of feats u put in general. than go easier to experimente with builds. me like it :}. shame we demos need tht much aa so we cant spent more time on lvling protection in aa tree, tho probubly not many clases can waste tht much time in tht. tho realy start thinking about puting at least 2 points in unholy, electrical protection (holy wont help me with demonic heart hehe). tht is like 2 aa lvls, and might be usefull for more than just pvp. tho i now having problem with renegotiatin in combine with pacts in aa. looooong and rocky road to world of imbaness :}. if any1 try this (upgraded pacts(aa) + renegotiation(aa) + feat in conlig) post ure exp cuz i think tht ill be going it tht way...

[matt]

well said. from what i see standard turret is great untill u get like lvl 4 in pvp since u get extra armor and extra protection (y i didnt remember tht ), and on lvl 4 u can buy gear tht actualy replace tons of feats u put in general. than go easier to experimente with builds. me like it :}. shame we demos need tht much aa so we cant spent more time on lvling protection in aa tree, tho probubly not many clases can waste tht much time in tht.

I think demo is actually one of the least gear dependant classes out there. Sure we will do less dps but the aim is to not get hit in the first place, so survivability us largely feat dependent. In pvp athe only aa that is essential is etheral escape. With good posistioning you can do a huge amount even when undergeared. In pve too... A poorly geared demo isnt too much of a problem in experience hands, but a poorly geared guard = wipe.

I have always pvp'd with very bad gear and i think your right that turret is better to start with. Not because it has better survivability, but because it is better suited to a develoing demos playstyle... I also think it is the build of choice for seiges and if all someone wants is to score mini kills

I must get around to testing renegotiation too! Cant bring myself to start training it otherwise lol.. Snoooorreee!

[Gert]

I must get around to testing renegotiation too! Cant bring myself to start training it otherwise lol.. Snoooorreee!

TL is handy for things like this - you get a one-off of 750 mastery points

[matt]

I must get around to testing renegotiation too! Cant bring myself to start training it otherwise lol.. Snoooorreee!

Lost a little love for my other toons and gained a little love for the demo. I have given renegotiation a good fiddling.

5/5 this gives around 10% crit damage rating while archfient/set is running.

In summary it is just not worth it. Even if we spec into conflag. On perhaps one or two occasions would I ever equip this, In other situations there are better aa available

[Zionis]

hello i wanted some feedback on this PVE build i found for demonologist

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=44&tpl=1000-15,1001-15,1013-15,1003-15,1015-12,1051-13,1057-11,1002-13,1004-13,1016-12,1014-13,1018-11,1021-12,1053-12,1020-15,1047-14,1007-15,4106-25,4100-25,4103-25,4101-25,4105-23

also i wanted peoples opinion on points in skill
i try to be at top on concentration cause thats obvioussly the most important one for a demonologist but i have doubts about all the others.

my other doubts have to do with perks and combos can i at level 30 have any?how?
also i was planning to start professions but didnt found any trainer so far

any help is most welcome eheh noob here.

[Gert]

AAS is something for the end-game (lvl 80) - you can get 2 AAS points to spend in the 20s from Gateway but other than that AAS won't be something you need to worry about...

I know what I'd use for a demo (given I have one ) - my demo is hybrid and has a long range with a good mix of fire, electricity, cc's and debuffs (build is this) - but I'd say ignore builds and enjoy finding out what things do as you level